The following is a letter I sent to the Editor, in response to the article referring to the pine beetle crew that wanted to stay at the Crowsnest Centre.
Regarding the latest controversy of “Council chasing away business”. I was very surprised that this article did not present a fair and unbiased view of the issues and that councillors with opposing views were not interviewed and given the opportunity to comment.
First, Council members indeed were approached with the opportunity to provide accommodation to an enterprise for 50 people; 25 rooms for 52 days with access to an office and meeting areas. The Municipality would have been paid $16500 for those rooms. This works out to $12.69 per room per day for two people. The public has been told that the Centre does not compete with the commercial sector. The majority of Council believes that we have a hospitality industry in the Crowsnest Pass that has to pay taxes, pay staff, pay their utilities, make donations to various causes and make a profit. The majority of Council believes the hospitality industry should not have to compete unfairly with a subsidized Municipal facility. There is a good reason why hotels charge more than $12.69 per room.
Second, the majority of Council took the position that there are lots of rooms available in our community; our local commercial taxpaying hospitality industry. If only this enterprise had taken the time and effort to research the availability of rooms in the Crowsnest Pass. This enterprise demanded that their crew be accommodated in one location. I quote the president: "We can’t be moving our people form [sic] one under equipped hotel to another (my people will just quit) and we can’t be chasing them 4 times a day between multiple locations from BC to Frank". Their position was that having their crew scattered all over the Crowsnest Pass did not work for them. However, in the last letter from the contractor he stated: “We will house 16 of our crew in Longview in less than perfect accommodations. We will move the rest of our crew to Pincher Creek except for 10 people that we have in B&B’s in Coleman.”
The point that the majority of Council was trying to make was that we have a hospitality industry in the Crowsnest Pass that does not need to compete unfairly or at all with a subsidized Municipally owned facility supported by taxpayers dollars.
And to the lady from the local hotel that called and the B + B lady that approached me at the Bank, Thanks for your kind comments and support. (And yes I appreciate that they never called your establishments for rooms)
If you are interested in voicing an opinion on this issue you can either leave a comment here or go and vote on the local papers On line Poll at the following address.
http://www.crowsnestpasspromoter.com/
26 comments:
Why doesn't the caterer tender an offer to run the Centre on a contract basis? Is it because she knows there is no way she can make a profit, unless the Centre is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer?
Celtic Reforestation in cahoots with the caterer was trying to pull a fast one at our expense.
Good for council for making a good business decision. Bad for the Promoter for not seeing through this self-serving charade, and for painting council and this community in such a bad light.
As par for the course you are only supplying the parts of the information that support your cause. In your 52 day calculation you did not account for the fact that they will be gone from Dec 23 to January 2, and they expect to be done about Jan 26. That adds up to 41 days. You do not mention that all staffing was to be supplied by someone other than the municipality, all supplies were to be supplied by someone other than the municipality, all equipment and furnishings were to be supplied by someone other than the municipality. You do not mention that for their 16,500 the municipality was asked to supply heat , light, one telephone line, and snow removal . That is all. The Municipality would take none of the risk that the client was done their job early , that they didn’t pay their bill or that they damaged the building during their stay. Now I wouldn’t be much of a business person if I only charged my clients what my fixed overhead rate was and didn’t account for the other costs involved . Not that I have to justify my prices to you but the Client was offered a 25% rate reduction on the rack rate because of their long stay and their combination of services required.
To mycdnprince: It might be best that you refrained from sulting my integrity cause I’m pretty sure I don’t deserve it
Dawn
Council made the right decision.We have to let incoming businesses know they will not be competing with a tax subsidized building.Even at 41 nights the cost per room would be around $20/night.Who in the CNP can compete with that?If the CNP has such a shortage of rooms,then someone will build a hotel, create employment and ad to the tax base.You can not send the message that rooms are available at the centre and try to draw the hotel business to the CNP.Dawn I am sorry you lost out on a job, ever think of becoming a hotelier, there must be a need.
After all the fiasco going on with previous management and the stories of being self sufficient!!!! I prefer to believe John and Dean over Dawn. You reap what you sow!!!!
Sounds like the place makes lots of money. There should be all kinds of offers to run the place.
Ray
Anyway it makes me wonder what is happening here? We have a convention center created from an old hospital, that loses money for 20 years. But now its considered by some to be the crown jewel of the Rockies. Next thing somebody will be trying to tell us that the river run project is moving ahead.
Blow the place up its an eyesore. Look at what you see when you enter the Pass a scrap yard in the west, another one in Blairmore right across the road from this old run down building. When is somebody going to take the time to clean this place up??????????
Jerry
The letter from the company states the following.
"We are also utilizing a couple of group facilities that we will have to get out of from Dec 19 to Jan 4th leaving our crew, who will work right through Xmas, without accommodation."
So they are working from Dec 23 to Jan 2.
Mr Ward
Looking at this from the outside having not lived in the Pass for the last ten years. Could you provide some information.
When I left in 1999 wasn't the Center going through all kinds of financial problems.
Didn't the council and board at the time have place into a Convention Center?
Are you telling us that the Center did not make money over the last ten years?
Didn't all the financies go through the Municipality?
How much money did the community put in to upgrade the facility over the last ten years?
The hotels in the community are they very busy?
Why if there is a need for this kind of facility, and if its a profitable venture. Wouldn't the private sector be lining up to acquire the business? (maybe it is, I just have not read anything).
For the private caterer I know the question was asked early on the blog, why don't they buy the facility, that is a good question if there is so much potential?
Wasn't there a referendum held on this facility and what were the results?
I know this might be a dumb question but since I left didn't the Municipality take over the MDM?
How is that working out?
What is the municipality doing with that building?
Lots of questions hope you can answer them for me.
Sandra
High Level
As several people tend to leave anonymous comments it makes it difficult to respond to them but I will give it a shot.
To the first anonymous person:
Can you please explain to me what exactly is wrong with a little competition? Last I checked competition was a good thing, it keeps companies in check and prices at a reasonable level.
You mention that the cost per room would be $20 per night. When in fact the cost would not be $20 per room but per person this means that room costs can range from $40 to $60 dollars a night per room at the Crowsnest Centre places with greater room occupancy would be able to make more for each room. Current prices at the BCMI are $77 per night for double occupancy, not really that far off especially when you consider that most hotels give discounts to companies who are renting a large number of rooms for a length of time.
As for hotels coming into the pass, I am sure that they would come if only they had not seen so many other companies come here only to get mislead and unfairly treated by our council and the development board.
To Anonymous number 2
How can you judge current management and profitability of the Crowsnest Centre based on the faults of the last? The Centre had in place a business plan which would have seen it self sufficient after 3 years. Unfortunately council cut this short and forced them to go after only 1 year, no business can hope to properly succeed like that. Not only did they cut funding early they made the fate of the Centre so uncertain that several clients pulled their booking or did not book in the first place.
Ray
There would be all kinds of offers to run the place which under the right management could be very successful, however, being under the rule of the current council does not seem to be anyone's idea of a good business plan.
Jerry
Please be more specific about these "scrap yards". I agree that someone has to take the time to clean this place up but shutting down buildings and businesses will not help we will just end up with more rotting condemned structures to deal with.
Sandra
As your questions are addressed to Mr. Ward I will leave it for him to answer.
Jen H
Sorry if I have this wrong but wasn't the convention portion set up to help offset the low cost rental to community groups such as the symphony, indoor play ground, etc.
As well as affordable hall rental for numerous community fundraisers.
If this building is sold to private enterprise this will all be lost.
Dawn,
I was not trying to insult your integrity. In fact, I give you Kudos for being a smart businesswoman, who provides an excellent professional catering service, bar none. But sometimes, as you know, the numbers just don't add up for the other side. So either increase the numbers, or bow away gracefully.
But it is not just the money, I think, but the fact the municipality is being held hostage over the equipment and furnishings situation, at the present time. Pretty hard to agree to renting accommodations when you are not sure you will be able to provide the amenities, don't you think?
The Centre needs to stop dividing us as a community... Let it go.
Why didn't you guys negotiate a better deal? Was the 16,500.00 set in stone?
TO JEN H
Do the math again!
25 Rooms for 41 days (or 52??...we will do the calculation on 42) for a payment of 16,500. This comes out to 425.00 per day. Divide by 25 and this comes to 17.00 per day per room double occupancy as there are 50 employees. If it is in fact 52 days the rate would be much less. No wonder the center doesn't make any money..please get a calculator!
AH Dean
What was this Business Plan 16 B, they have been trying to make the place profitable for what 30 years.
Larry
I am the biggest believer in free enterprise you will ever find, competion is a great thing.It does need to be on a level playing field.If one company does not have to pay property tax and the other does thats not level.Heat, power, cost to build and maintain a building should be about the same for everyone.Is this the case with centre.NO.How can a private hotel compete?Why would anybody want to start up a business if the playing field is not level.
I find it hard to believe as some seem to that the 16,500 offered to the municipality for this function was all the money being made. You would hope that Dawn is enough of a business woman to keep a share of the profit for herself as she would be doing the work, also that the centre itself would be making some money off this, also they have to pay employees. Grab a brain people. The company must be paying way more for the stay than 16,500.
More than that they spend a great deal of money outside the Centre in our community, but that seems to have escaped your small brains that can only think of the Centre and how it needs to be shut down!!
So to the last post why could they have not just stopped at local hotels. Spent the same dollars, and allow the places that pay taxes to make a living to.
I know the arguement! they all wanted to stay in one spot, that is why they are now staying in Pincher Creek, Longview, and Coleman. Municipality of Crowsnest Pass why don't you get into the Liquor Store, or grocery business we only have two choices of grocery stores.
We could start up a Society to run it. Payless Grocceries and if it does not make money no big deal, we will just fund it with tax dollars. Think how many jobs we would create.
Max
Some silly comments being made. The smartest approach would just be for government at any level to stay out of business?
Does anyone know what the company was paying per room? It would be nice if Dawn was up front and divulged that information.
Jen H
Rooms @ BCMI Double Occupancy
Coleman $97 per night
Blairmore $90 per night
Jen H
Business Plans
Which one would you like to see I have at least four here dating back to the early 90's. (I'm sure I do not have them all)
All of them looked great on paper.
All of them failed.
The Centre will not succeed as a business, we as a community must decide if we wish/afford to run two community centres.
If the taxpayers are ok with that I am fine to. But that is not what they are telling me.
Regarding Funding the Centre told us on Dec 16, 2008 at a public meeting they did not need municipal dollars.
Well in 2008 we put $105,000 in to the Centre which was 25% of their revenue.
The Westcastle Ski Hill deal was another 10% of their revenue, we knew back in the Spring that Westcastle was not coming back.
So between those two items they lost 35% of their revenue.
Keep in mind that the 25% was revenue that they did not have to earn.
In the sense of a typical business where you bring in revenue and make a margin on it, that $105,000 went straight to the bottom line.
THE CENTRE WILL NEVER SUCEED AS A BUSINESS, IF THE TAXPAYERS WANT IT THEN THEY MUST FUND IT.
IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE, DO YOU WISH TO FUND IT?
Can anybody explain to me why after almost 20 years of attempting to run the centre as a business it is still not working.
Dean,
Can anybody explain to me why after almost 20 years of attempting to run the centre as a business it is still not working.
In my opinion, the answer, in part, is quite simple.
When the Centre was initially setup by our current mayor and cohorts, the creation of a Society and Board, totally independent of the municipality, was the end result.
The municipality got to pay the bills, but had no say. This organizational structure ensured its failure from the get-go.
I personally believe it was never meant to succeed as a business, but instead, to serve the self-serving interests of the elite in our community, at taxpayers' expense.
We got to pay, for them to play.
John
I think you hit the nail on the head.
Our good Mayor as often referred to this little jem as our version of the Banff Centre.
http://www.banffcentre.ca/
Then we should have not spent the last 20 years pretending it was something else.
Forgive me for hijacking the tread. However as an "outsider" I may have a different perspective on this. I come down here to work for 2 days a week. With the nature of my job I am highly involved in the community. As far as I see it the big issue here is money. Isn't that always the way it is. The municipality has, in my opinion, been hemorrhaging money. There are a number of reason but here is what I feel are the top three.
1. Where is the tax base? Mostly personal taxes. There is very little industry in the community. Very few business to provide the business tax. And it seems like on a monthly bases another business closes the dooor. There is few places for people to work to unless it is mining, hospitality, or health care. I am young but for me to move here is out of the question cause there is no work for my family and the degree which they went to university for. Furthermore this is a retirement community. The population is dewindling as the effects of aging present. That is further taking away from the amount of money the council can operate with.
2. 5 fire departments. Granted they do a great job. However with 5 fire departments we have around 13 fire trucks and around 80 firefighters. That is more then the City of lethbridge has. Not only that the firefighter are volunteer which adds to response times, if there are even enough firefighters to respond. I can recall one incident where 4 fire stations had to be paged cause there wasn't enough people to respond. A full time smaller fire department with volunteer back up decrease the costs. no longer will yoiu have to pay 10 fire fighters 3 hours of pay to respond to alarm bells when 2 guy who are already being paid can investigate it and determine what is needed. Not only that but the costs for training, and apparatus can be cut significatnly.
3. The Crowsnest Centre and all the sportsplexs. What is their current operating capacity. maybe a suggestion to knockdown the crowsnest centre and build a new upgraded facility with, climbing wall, indoor pool, ice rinks, convention centre, etc. would operate more efficiently and at an increased capacity.
I realize I may not have the answer and I am sure council is aware of the issues. But the amount of squabling over this is causing more money to be spend. Decide what it is that everyone want the future of crowsnest pass to look like. If it is like the way it was in the past then go forth and do that. If it is like Banff/Waterton then take all this energy and focus on getting the Crowsnest Pass provincial park status.
Start talking with people, open the dialogue, share ideas. You'll be surprised the education and opinion of people. I think that the Pass is at a crucial point right now. Either succeed together or fail individually.
Trevor
like the banff centre...Have you seen that? The community centre here needs a giant upgrade to match the banff centre. Secondly how can I donate to the centre? The society seems to rely far to heavly on the municipality to support them. Perhaps the society needs to get someone with a degree in non profit business operation to build this "great center" you all dream of.
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