The following Notices of Motions were presented at the last two Council Meeting the first regarding Public Transportation and the second regarding an Indoor Swimming Pool recreation program.
I am providing them as a benefit for my readers I will comment more over the next few days.
The one obvious question that I assume will jump out at everybody is how are these programs going to be paid for, Councilor Saje does offer some options how realistic they are I don't know.
Staying on that issue Council set a budget that I suspect will "not" mean 0% tax increases this year, which did not place any money into reserves, and in fact put the municipality further in debt to buy new equipment (Almost $600,000).
But did do its share to help the economic recovery by creating additional employment.
Notice of Motion for Councillor Andrew Saje
February 15, 2011
The Need for Alternative Public Transportation
WHEREAS it is important to realize that the Crowsnest Pass is a unique linear mountain community spanning a corridor distance of over 30 kms.
AND WHEREAS it is important to realize that alternative modes of transportation for its citizens is vital to the community’s sustainability.
AND WHEREAS it is realized that greener (Mother Nature friendly)public modes of transportation are welcome by the citizens of the Crowsnest Pass.
AND WHEREAS the Crowsnest Pass has a diverse community requiring a broader mode of public transportation.
AND WHEREAS the Crowsnest Pass has a gap for low income individuals and families, youth,and seniors,who do not fit the criteria for the Town Rounder and were not able to get around the municipality easily due to its long geographical constraints.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED
1. Direct Administration to create a plan to implement an alternative public transportation system. The specific scope, timeframe and potential resources required for this study be identified and reported to Council no later than one Governance and Priorities Committee or Council meeting before the 2011 Spring Town Hall meeting and further.
2. Request that Administration investigate all transportation revenue avenues besides fare box recovery including but not limited to advertising, grants,and corporate contributions.
NOTICE OF MOTION
FOR COUNCILLOR ANDREW SAJE
DATE: March 1, 2011
SUBJECT: 2011 – 2012 Fall – Winter – Spring Indoor Pool and Recreation Program
WHEREAS it is important that Council realized from the 2010 Fall election that indoor pool and facility programs of a Recreation Centre are important for the quality of life for the citizens of the Crowsnest Pass.
AND WHEREAS it is important to realize that Council is aware that with the current trend of a declining population that the construction and maintenance of a local Recreational Facility cannot be considered until the stabilization of sustainability is achieved.
AND WHEREAS it is realized that an interim solution can be attained by partnering with our neighboring communities and establishing a shuttle service program to their indoor Recreation Facility.
AND WHEREAS such a shuttle service program would help neighboring Recreational Facilities with maintenance and program costs and would enhance neighboring community spirit and relations.
AND WHEREAS it is important for the major employers of the Crowsnest Pass residence that their employees and their families enjoy alternative fall to spring indoor programs.
AND WHEREAS it is realized by Council that such a shuttle service program would provide valuable statistical information for the demand of Indoor Recreation Programs and would impact the implementation of the future Recreation Center in the Crowsnest Pass.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED
1. Direct Administration to contact our neighboring communities and propose the creation of a collaborative fall to spring indoor pool and recreation program using a shuttle service from the Crowsnest Pass to their facility and further
2. Request that Administration contact all major employers and all potential contributing organizations to receive financial commitments covering the costs of buses,labour, maintenance,and program fees for such a service and further
3. The specific scope, timeframe and potential resources required for this program be identified and provided to Council no later than May 25, 2011.
40 comments:
Interesting concept instead of bringing the pool to the residents of the Pass. We will take the residents to the pool.
To be financed by our very successful downtown merchants association.
Was this endorsed by the Chamber of Commerce.
I do not want to take a shuttle to Pincher or Sparwood to go swimming.Expand that thought and this is what you get.Close the arena and take a shuttle.Close the playgrounds and take a shuttle.Close the ski hill, library, grocery store...
It should be the other way around, we shuttle in the people from Sparwood and Elkford to do there shopping here, better prices and no HST.
Why can we not put a roof and 3 walls up around our existing pool?
If the community is "not sustainable" then why would they spend all of that money on equipment.
If you want to encourage young families and businesses to come here you need a rec centre here.NOT a shuttle.
Give the people what they want.Ask them.I beleive they are in favour of a rec centre and are willing to pay more taxes to get it.
Will this trip to the Pool be based on income levels.
I will be dammed if I am going to take part of my business income to finance somebodies kids, whose parents are making $100,000 per year.
So if one tenth of our population wants to go swimming that is 600 people 12 coaches. Wow
I would like a shuttle to go shopping at Walmart
Well to 3:42 I am not willing to pay any more taxes. Especially when the town can afford to hire five more employees.
Larry
I agree, Larry.Get rid of the new employees and build a rec centre and our taxes may not need to go up.
i think people would be surprised at the cost of maintaining a rec center like in sparwood. Keep in mind we dont have the taxes from the mines to support building a facility like that. Bussing people over there is ridiculos and we could be opening our selves up for problems with kids if that ever got off the ground. The idea of public transportation or better use of the town rounder has some merit though
How many shuttles per day? Do you leave in the a.m.and get picked up in the afternoon? Could be a long day in Sparwood if there is only one bus available to pick you up.
Let's use our time more productively council...this is one suggestion that has not been thought out........
I agree with scrapping the shuttle and building the rec center.... based on our population our initial taxes would go up about 12-15% to cover the building costs and then to maintain the rec center, our taxes would be higher than any other community in Southern Alberta. That would draw many families and people to the area and the people that already live here would be a bunch of happy campers :)
Take a look at the 2001 and the 2006 census, our neighbours Sparwwod, Elkford, Fernie all who have indoor swimming pools.
Every one of their populations declined during that time frame.
If you go back on Dean's Blog he did some research based on the impact of the 4 on 4 off schedule at the mines. (If I wasn't so lazy I would find it myself).
That's the real issue with four days off the miners don't have to or want to live here.
Dean
Can you give me some sense of what it costs to run the town rounder?
Just curious, are there grants out there to finance transportation services?
You know I remember sitting in the Greenhill about a week before the election, one of the present councilors who at that time was not a councilor told me he would make sure we got a new Recreation Facility with an Indoor Swimming Pool.
I do not think this was the impression I had in mind after he finished getting my vote.
Yes we have a declining population, but we do have more homes that are paying tax.(ironstone, Kananaskis wild, southmore, infills)
Yes taxes will go up if you build a rec centre.How much, I do not know.The figures presented in the earlier post are based on an opinion and are useless (either that or back up your numbers).How much does it cost to build a rec centre?How muuch could be funded by the federal and provincial government?Perhaps the bigger companies like Teck or Devon may be persuaded to give back to the community?Maybe the citizens fund raise for it.Maybe we could find a way to use sweat equity to help offset the costs.Or maybe we could take a shuttle.
i suggest to anyone considering a rec centre look into the history of the ball/soccer complex as that has yet to be completed. i know they are two different issues but it will provide you with a valuable lesson on how things get started around here. Everything was promised up front including sweat equity and none of it was followed up on. Just go to archives section of pass promoter and key words ball/soccer it will provide you some valuable insight and an eye opener. this is what happens when there is no clear vision on a project. When this council gets turfed a plan for a complex will get put aside and history repeats itself
The ball complex would have been completed if not for council putting it into the danger zone of Turtle Mountain, which stopped all funding.And there was a lot of sweat equity put into that project, but I do not recall seeing you there.
This council could have a rec centre built before they get "turfed".
Anonymous 1:28 PM said:
"companies like Teck or Devon may be persuaded to give back to the community?"
We should have a Shell Swimming Pool for allowing reduced sour gas well safety radius.
In Banff, Radium, Nakusp or any mineral springs you will find the pool half full of Germans.
We need to find some rich Germans to invest in a Frank Mineral Hot Springs Resort, which would include a swimming pool.
The Frank spring is not naturally hot but a bit of natural gas would fix that.
I have a friend who lives in Whitefish and it took about 7 years for them to finance and build their Rec. Center, the Wave. A shuttle service is a pretty good idea until council figures out the actual costs of building one here. It will also benefit the youth and young families in town in the meantime.
Does anybody really expect our thriving business sector to pay for this.
Even if they did it would be very temporary, with the burden of maintaining the program then falling back on to the taxpayers or its demise.
The Wave in Whitefish looks really good.
http://www.whitefishwave.com/about_whitefish_wave.php
Construction started in 2003 cost of $7.2 million.
Any idea what that would be in todays dollars?.
It will cost $20 million to build an Indoor facility in the Pass.
By the time you getting planning/fundraising in place you are looking at the earliest 2015 start date.
Local business paying to take kids out of town. Dream On
let me see if i got this right we a have a counciller that has a few visions while looking through his beer googles at the local hotel. He brings forth his ideas to council without doing any research and now some locals are taking him seriously. Lets see some costing studies on building and maintaining these ideas. A history lesson on other projects started in this community would be a good place to start. This will provide some insight into projects that were not properly researched before council makes a commitment to them. Also on the topic of bussing people over to Sparwood to use their facility this has so many holes in it i dont know where to begin.Would we have to create another postion for the driver and will he shuttle people back and forth all day or sit over their on the payroll. It sounds like beer talk to me. The only thing that did has some merit was local transporatation or better use of the town rounder. You cant get to where your going if you dont know where to begin. (the miners journey)
I won't provide all the information right now because I just don't have the time today.
The town rounder presently provides roughly 5000 rides per year, at a cost of $90,000 to the taxpayers.
Now if you do the math that's $18 per trip.
You may say well if we had a system like the Elk Valley that shuttles people from town to town. You would assume that a system like that would do much better.
Well the Elk Valley despite having more than double the population of the Crowsnest Pass, provides 6000 trips a year at a cost of $200,000. Or roughly $33.35 per trip.
As Councilor Saindon stated during the budget process, "the vast majority of people are getting tired of paying for services that only 20% of the population uses".
Yes before I speak I do some research, the best way to avoid repeating others mistakes is to learn from them.
Everything looks good on paper.
Just a litttle sidebar here the Elk Valley is spending $33.35 a trip to shuttle people around. And you have a taxi company that's been in the Elk Valley for 30 plus years whose drivers are struggling every day to make a living.
Could there be some correaltion between the two?
I noticed in both motions it refers to the corporate sector providing support.
The bussinesses in the Crowsnest Pass are they doing that well.
9o,000 dollars a year for wages, fuel, maintenance and depreciation of unit and or replacement of this unit i find that one hard to believe. But yes you do your research as far as i have seen.
Peter
I also keep my paperwork, I have the last six years budgets, notes etc.
The Rounder does 5000 rides at $2 per trip that's $10,000 per year.
If you take a driver @ roughly $25 per hour plus 25% for burden your talking $60-65,000 a year.
Before we even consider those other costs you mention.
thanks for that Dean, sorry for taking up so much of your space here. also my comments are not directed against the town rounder. it provides a valuable service to this community and if we have to subsidize it i am fine with that. Sometimes we have to look after the less fortunate or those who cannot drive.It is only being used in context with the original post.
Peter
I value and appreciate your comments, so keep them coming.
Just a thought.Why is it so expensive to build an indoor swimming pool.You can build a pretty nice house with a full concrete basement for about 200/sq.ft.Why can you not build a pool for about the same?So if you had a 12,000 sq. ft. facility it should cost about 2.4 million.(12,000 sq.ft. is just a guess as to what size you would need)Even if it was double the cost of a house it still would be under 5 million.
I always have a feeling that anytime government is building something they get gouged.
I know I am getting way ahead of myself but, we now have our own track hoe, so we dig our own hole in the ground.We then have a work bee and put up the walls with styrofoam block with a local contractor overseeing the whole thing.We pay someone to do the roof and we are to lock up.We then get the local trades to come in and provide there services at cost along with some more sweat equity and before you know it you have a rec centre.
What we need is an organizational comittee to get the ball rolling and see if this is possible.
Oh yeah lets not forget where it should be located.(let the fighting begin)
I honestly think that if the community got behind this type of idea we could build a rec centre that we could be proud of without spending more than 2 million.
I know, I am dreaming.
I think if it was that simple many communties would have done it that way already.
Can anybody name one?
What about engineering, legal liabilities etc etc etc?
Marathon, Ontario
As long as Dean has his pencil out, I'd be interested to know how much we're currently spending on recreation, including everything (For example, is the cost of maintaining and plowing parking lots and access roads in the rec budget, or hidden in the streets budget?).
If there's any pencil left, how about a breakdown to show how much we're subsidizing each round of golf, hockey game, ski ticket and quad ride?
I did not say it was "simple" in response to 10:47.What about engineering and legal, if you read my post, I left a 2 million dollar budget.
I am looking for ways to get it done.Any other ideas out there to get it done.
The golf course is a good example of people who wanted something, they came up with a plan and then followed through with the plan.Was it simple or easy, no.Was it worth it, YES.
Look at the last project that was going to be built and ran by volunters.
Ten years late we have two ball fields and the municipality maintaining them.
Before anybody gets excited I am not in any way slamming that group I know some of those people and they worked very hard.
The issue is that it is hard to build something based on the backs of volunters and even harder to maintain it.
Jack
For the person that presented the example of Marathon Ontario
You forgot to mention that took place in 1987.
Local bussinessmen Raymond and Marie Goldbach donated $1 million.
Which in todays dollars would be $4-5 million any idea who would be that generous in the Crowsnest.
I hope you are right.
I googled it. http://www.masaswim.org/History.htm
Rumour on the street the shuttle will be sponsored by Summit and the 7-11,
It will now be called the Summit Slurpee Shuttle.
Will the shuttle be stopping in Pincher for lunch, maybe a little shopping?
A shuttle to other recreation facilities is a ridiculous idea. Why don’t we start by providing transportation to the recreation facilities we have in the Crowsnest Pass? A shuttle to other communities would only cater to a small group of say lane swimmers. I thought I read that council was discussing increasing user fees of our own facilities because say only 20 % of the taxpayers utilize these facilities. So if council isn’t willing to cater to 20 % of its users then why would it cater to say the 1% of lane swimmers who would utilize a shuttle to elsewhere? It makes no sense to me. Responsible parents aren’t going to ship their kid on a bus to another town. Usually when families go swimming to say Fernie, Sparwood, or Pincher they make a day or afternoon of it and shop. I agree that a shuttle to Walmart would be better utilized.
Council really needs to make transportation to its own facilities and businesses a priority. The town rounder is not utilized to its maximum potential. We have children who have to walk to school in freezing, blizzard conditions across a major highway yet I saw the townrounder parked outside the beer store. Something isn’t right here!
As for the discussion of an indoor pool, why doesn’t council start by asking for input from their pool society? Work with them; create a vision or maybe a strategic plan.
So frustrated,
Kim
I forgot to mention how frustrated I am about the ball field talk. If it wasn't for the volunteers who built the new fields then we wouldn't have a single decent field in the Crowsnest Pass. Some support to finish them would be great. These new fields are great for the older group of ball players but they don't work for our youth. Blairmore fields are in poor condtion and don't even have fences because the space is utilized for Thunder in the Valley. The one field is also lacking a safe dugout. MDM fields are done and dangerous as well as Dairy Road. Its time Council look at the joint use agreements it has with the schools as well. I think it bull that no money is allocated for ball fields. Ball tournaments bring in business! Mad about ball fields,
Kim
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