Well almost all of Alberta is booming with a population growth of 10.8% or in real number’s almost 355,000 new residents came to our province during the last five years.
The province is growing in leaps and bounds with the exception of this little corner down here in the South West the Crowsnest Pass actually was one of only four municipalities in Alberta with a population of greater than 5000 that actually shrank, yes our population dropped by 184 people (3.2%).
How will this affect the community?
Right in the pocket book most provincial or federal grants are based on population. My last year on council we were getting roughly $1400 in grants for each resident a drop of 184 based on that same amount would impact the community to the tune of $258,000 per year.
The other problem with this information is that you are stuck with these numbers for five years until the next census.
How did we compare to our neighbours?
Pincher Creek grew by 60 residents or 1.7%
Fort Macleod grew by 45 residents or 1.5%
Cowley grew by 17 residents or 7.8%
Sparwood grew by 49 residents or 1.4%
Elkford grew by 60 residents or 2.4%
Fernie grew by 231 residents or 5.5%
We must keep in mind that this census was conducted last spring so these numbers are very current and would reflect a lot of the hiring that the mines have done over the last two years.
34 comments:
I am very surprised at the growth in Fernie. Hard to imagine that coal miners are moving there.
I was talking to a councilor who explained this to me. We are not really declining because we have more week enders here now.
Jim
I never got a census, so add four more people to our population.
2:07 Looking at Fernie MLS listing last night, the prices over there are incredibile. I suspect your comment is correct. In fact I know of a couple of Coal miners that retired in Fernie.Didn't want to leave the area so they sold their homes in Fernie and purchased a home in Sparwood.
Jim this may well be a valid arguement but if you follow that logic through then we need to look at other communities that are prime destinations for weekenders, (Fernie,Banff,Canmore,Sylvan Lake, Invermere, Radium) all of the above would be attractions for that same market Calgary and based on the arguement you were given would they also not be in decline?.
The larger point in my post is that for the next five years all per capita government grants this community receives will be less, which will add further pressure on the taxpayers to fund additional infrastructure projects. Plus the other factor with weekenders, they don't put children in our school system which further impacts the declining school enrollment numbers here.
(Do not take this has an attack against weekenders, this community would be in big trouble without them.)
9:18 five years ago when the previous census numbers were released we had a Mayor that made that same arguement. The problem is what I have stated above all your per capita grants are tied to those numbers.
All is not lost if a community feels very strongly that its number is to low. You can apply to do your own census, which must be approved under strict guidelines set out my the province. The only problem is the cost for a municipality of our size would be $80-100,000.
If you are being truthful the municipality would only need to take your family and sixteen more individuals to pay for that municipal census.
(Yes a number of communties have done this in the past, but they were truly growing)
When I suggested to the Mayor five years ago that he introduce a motion to direct administration to look at conducting our own census the arguement just went away.
Remember when we were told that every arena was going to be filled with children?
That Coleman Sportsplex could not possibily accomadate all the various groups!
I moved from the Pass to a town in Sk that had a 48.5% increase in population from 2006 to 2011 (according to the numbers from last year's census). This place is dead during the day. At least there's life on Blairmore's main drag during the day.
Honestly, all these numbers in the communities are under 200. I don't think that has much effect one way or the other. And, Alberta is much different from BC. Would not even compare them. As far as the schools go, I cannot understand why there are so many schools to begin with. I think it is incredible the number of schools in such a small area. Think the kids in Bellevue or whatever could take a 5 minute bus ride to a major place, say Blairmore. Waste of money.
10:26
I disagree with you 200 in a community of this size is significant.
The largest chunk of provincial funding that comes to municipalities is the MSI. Which the province dishes out on a per capita basis. Keep in mind that $280,000 I referred to previously to be replaced by residential taxpayers dollars would require a 4% tax increase.
In your statement regarding transporting kids, there is no school in Bellevue or Hillcrest. Lots of kids are transported to schools.
Dean I was doing a little poking around on the internet and got the population information since amalgamation. The Crowsnest Pass has been in steady decline from 1981 (7,302) to 2011 (5,565). We have lost 1,737 people (25%) while Alberta has grown by 67% during this 30years. Why are we bucking the Alberta trend of growth? Is this a problem?
Jim
I did not believe you Jim so I went on the Stats Canada web site myself. I was shock, it is true...the Crowsnest Pass has lost 1,750 people. As a newcomer I have no idea why this beautiful little corner of the province is going backwards. It has mountains, a major highway and most of all good proximity to two major booming Alberta Cities. Very few things happen by accident, is it possible some people do want growth? To your second question is a 30 year decline a problem, I hope you are joking
Again, some people forget that there are a lot of people that own property AND PAY TAXES in the CNP who would not be on the census for here. It would be their main residence. Sometimes the people like to make things sound worse to suit their agendas. People still will move here as taxes are cheaper than a big city by far, and the quiet lifestyle. There will always be a call for that. Optimistic is better than pessimestic you know.
I do not think we have "lost" as much as the numbers may indicate. Let's look at the "weekender" impacts. I was told that, based on the new census numbers, approx. 20% of the homes in the CNP are owned by weekenders or approx 648 homes. If this is accurate and we were to average two people per home, that is an additional 1,300 people who are active in our community, at least part of the time. They pay property taxes but are not counted in the numbers when per capita grants are determined. If we include these "1300" our population is very similar to before the amalgamation. If anything, we are stagnant.
Nobody is questioning the weekenders moving here, I would suspect from my own experience that the number of 20% is low (more like 35-40%).
The problem with weekenders is that they "don't" factor in to your census numbers, so all of your per capita grants become less.
Which means that the infrastruture required to provide for additional residents is necessary, but "not" funded by the other two levels of government to the same degree because that census says you have less people here.
Anom 11:56
I couldn't agree more, optimism is the order of the day. $28,000,000 decline last year in real estate value, $3,000,000 drop in building permits, 200 less permanent residents and a main street with increasing vacancies are not reasons to give pause to this spending spree council is enjoying. I think we would should double down. If Transitional Solutions has some free staff, I am sure we need some more consulting. Our second bylaw enforcement guy starts work soon. Let optimism reign and hire a couple more of these enforcement guys with pickups and new offices. I hear the new fire chief needs an assistant. Optimistic...lets get after it.
Quite lifestyle...yes and getting quieter.
Calgary Taxes 300,000 X .54291=$1,629
Crowsnest Taxes 300,000 X 8.3118099=$2,493
Agenda; YES. Draw attention to this crazed spending when we do not have the means to support it.
Next year you should run for council... you have the right attitude, if of course you are not all ready there.
You nit wit.
Word on the street is that council is smoozing a big company to set up shop here in the CNP. Rumour has it that it is between Sparwood and us. It is a company that works directly with the mines.I hope council is offering lots of incentives as Sparwood is much closer to the mines and gets a big advantage.The mayor hinted in the herald today about something about job creation, maybe a glimmer of hope.
The only way the population of the CNP grows is if there are more jobs, people live where they work, generally.
How can anyone be surprised that our population is down.Atlas lumber closed down, artic spas closed down. Those two and all of the spinoff would have had me beleive that it should of been worse.
7:56
That was floating around back early in the fall. (P+H)
Do you honestly think it makes any sense to locate a company that sends employees up to the mines 24/7 365 days a year. At the furthest point away from the mines?
That's the old play the Pass to get a better deal out of Sparwood trick.
Sparwood has so much money they can match any incentive that the Pass would provide about ten times over.
I sure hope we are not going to get sucked into playing that game.
MW
I hope council pays attention to the brick in the paper. Its about time they put some money back in to the Albert Stella arena.
Volunteers spent a lot of time and effort building that great recreation facilty that has served this community well.
They could use some of that one million dollars that was used to relocate the tennants of the Crowsnest Center to the MDM.
At least that the way I see it.
MW, I do not disagree with you.But there are some advantages to working out of the CNP and Alberta.I am not 100% sure but I think we have a better corporate tax system than BC, and no HST. If they set up shop in the Sentinel area they are not that much further away.Yes Sparwood is richer but that does not mean that they could match every offer that we could present without the threat of others leaving if they do not get the same deal.I would offer no property taxes for the 1st, 3rd and 6th years. I would also check into the corporate tax structure and if AB has an advantage I would really drive that point home.
I also am not sure as to how the HST works. Does a company located in AB charge HST if they are selling to a BC company.If the answer is no, Tech would probably prefer if they were located in AB.Imagine millions of dollars at whatever that HST rate is(8%?).Maybe all those Sparwood companies should relocate here.
Corporate tax rate-over $500,000 BC 28.5% Alberta 25%
A little information from an accountant.
HST & GST is a consumption tax and only consumers pay it. Businesses do not pay either. The suppliers charge Tech GST & HST then the supplier sends the money to the government. Tech then fills out a form and the government gives it all back to Tech. GST & HST are none issues for Tech.
A business claims the income and expenses for each province they do business in and pays the appropriate tax on profits earned in each province.
Actually, don't know where you get the tax numbers from. We moved from Calgary to Blairmore last year, and our taxes are HALF for the same kind of house.
No need to call people names either, as nit wit. Be an adult.
We moved to the Pass from Calgary a couple of years ago and find property taxes here very expensive for what few services we get. I guess it is to be expected with the decline in population.
Bernie
Thanks for the info on the taxes. It looks like if they were to set up in AB they could save some tax dollars. It also may be more of incentive to there employees if they lived in AB as I am pretty sure our personal tax rates are better than BCs.
And I also agree that there is no need for name calling and wish that Dean warn people that he will not allow it.This is a nice forum to debate the issues and learn what others are thinking and potentially sway opinions.
It's great to see so many comments rolling in.
I have put out warnings previously about name calling and making fun of persons health issues.
I did not really want to censor a comment over "Nit Wit" being by far one of the least harmful terms used on this blog. But your point is well taken.
So if I see something that's going down that path again I will deal with it.
Anom 9:15 AM
I think you miss understood my comment. There is no income tax saving for a company to set up in Alberta and do business in BC. The company is required to file the income and expenses for each province they do business. They pay income tax at the BC rate for their business actives in that province and it does not matter if their office/plant is located in Alberta. You make a good point about the employees. They pay income tax to the province they live not where they earned the income.
Retired Accountant
This is an awesome site to discuss issues. You can find out a lot here. I feel sorry for anyone that resorts to name calling of any kind though. I think it probably erases everything they are trying to say, as they probably come across uneducated and needing anger management. Don't even bother about them.
The problem the tax rate difference between BC and Alberta is so slim we compare paychecks.
A BC truck driver at Coal Mountain pays about $30 a check more tax than a Alberta driver. Do you take an extra hour per day of travelling to save a very minimal difference in Income tax.
I do all my shopping in Alberta so HST is not an issue. Plus my property taxes are at least $500 cheaper in Sparwood than the Crowsnest.
3:19 So an Albertan would be about 30,000$ ahead over 40 years at the mine, not to bad.You have to drive to buy all of your stuff in AB (of course you never spend a dime in BC lol) so that must make up a little for the AB guy to drive to work. What if you buy a new car do you have to pay HST even if it is bought in AB? Just asking?
There is not much chance of me working at the mine for 40 years I would be 78.
Thanks to not driving that extra 100km a day I will buy a car every six years instead of five.
More than off sets the HST.
Buying in BC-Bread and milk thats about it.
Here's a thought .... several of the managers for that company live in Fernie and probably would prefer driving to Sparwood, as they do now, rather than to the Pass.
If getting business to relocate here is the heart of the strategic plan. Based on municipal grants, waiving of taxes, or other financial incentives.
Think back to the days of Strand and Friendly Fuels or go back even further in time Philips Cable.
In the long run it will not work the moment the money stops or somebody else offers them more money they will be gone.
T.D
I have heard that Council has squashed the P&H idea.
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