Crowsnest Pass-Money is tight?
I like a lot of my readers have been asking the question for months, what are we spending on Consultants.
We all know they do not come cheap and when you look at what CEO’s, Celebrities and athletes are making now days it is getting crazy, but in their defence they can only make it if somebody is prepared to pay it.
At the last council meeting Councilor Saje asked if Council could be supplied with the amount of dollars spent on consultants, administration answered that they would and in fact they could post the information on the web site, as of today I have not seen anything yet.
Obviously it is not confidential information protected by FOIP rules because the information below is posted on a public site.
It's great for council to see that information but what about us the taxpayers, I have been trying to research what kind of money is paid to the type of consultants we have been using without a lot of success.
Until today I received an email from a very astute follower of my blog and told to check out the following address http://www.mountainviewcounty.com/specialagendas and to read the minutes from the Nov 5 and Nov 10, 2010 meetings.
To my great interest I found the following which I have copied and pasted from the November 5, 2010 minutes:
Moved by Councillor Good
SC10-183 That Council approve entering into a Memorandum of Agreement with Transitional Solutions Inc. for the period from November 8, 2010 to April 29, 2011 and that the funding be allocated from the Tax Rate Stabilization Reserve as follows:
- Twelve hundred ($1200.00) dollars per day (plus GST) for each day worked by Kevin Robins
- Twelve hundred ($1200.00) dollars per day (plus GST) for each day worked by Donna Tona
- A flat rate of fifteen hundred ($1500.00) dollars per month for accommodation and meals
- Fifty cents ($0.50) per kilometer for all kilometers travelled from Transitional’s office to Mountain View
- Subject to articles 13 and 14, any time in a twenty-four (24) hour day worked by Robins or Tona beyond seven (7) hours shall be banked until the banked hours total seven (7), at which time Transitional shall invoice Mountain View for an additional day pursuant to articles 16 or 17 of this Agreement, whichever applies;
and further, that the total contract amount be to a maximum of $194,000 (not including GST);
and, that the Agreement include amendments as provided by County Legal Counsel.
Now I know full well the Council of the Crowsnest Pass
$1200 per day for a seven hour day, not bad $171.43 per hour plus $1500 per month for accommodation and meals. Once again nothing against the consultants we would all make this kind of money if we could. But the question is can we the taxpayers of the Crowsnest Pass
61 comments:
It looks good on the Mountain View County to conduct its business in a very transparent manner. There was a lot of talk about transparency here during the election
Will make bargaining with CUPE a little more interesting.
Can't wait for our union to start negotiations. We are in the money. We are in the money. Can't wait to put this information on the table.
People here chose to elect 'suits' over blue collar types with the believe they knew better being more educated and professional, only to find out the only thing they knew was to hire other so-called professionals to tell them what to do, and how to run a municipality.
Who are the bigger dupes, the ones who voted for them, or the ones now paying for their mistakes? Same dupes.
Like a certain former female councillor once said "F**k them, they deserve what they get."
I say, she hit the nail right on the head.
JP
couldn't the rewrite of the bylaws just have been a cut n paste exercise from another municipality
FW
i guess we know why we need all the cuts now. Putting a stop to thunder in the valley will help pay for these consultants while they figure out more ways of getting their income from you. Around here its going to be death by a thousand cuts.
It Is always about money and sense. Tremendous lack of common sense at the top.
Where are the citizens to save the Crowsnest Pass now?
Jack
This council appears to be pretty much all of one mind on all the important issues. We elected them, and this is how democracy works. If they save us a pile of dollars and don't raise taxes - we will elect them again. But, so far, it does not look good for the taxpayers. It is probably not all that much fun for those on council as well.
There "was" a lot of talk of transparency, during the campaigning, but most of the talk was from those of us who did not get elected. Bet the community wishes it elected us now.
SJB
Why is that Donna Tona person still there?
When the hell does this crap stop?
$6000 a week (for a 35 hour week)not bad.
I sure hope they write a policy on not using my tax dollars to pay for consultants.
With the money we are spending on Transitional Solutions, we could have paid for TITV and had money left over to pay for extra security.
Isn't there someone on our municipal staff who could have "cut and paste" bylaws from another jurisdiction and proposed them as our own? At no additional cost to taxpayers?
We elected a bunch of fearful sheep who vote to transfer my tax dollars and yours to a bunch of consultants with strong ties to the provincial government.
Picture this deep in the bowels of the municipal office. A meeting takes place between the Consultants and Council.
"We really should rewrite all your By laws, policies, procedures, anybody want to toss in job descriptions for good luck"
Council looks at each other and says "well we were elected to be a policy and procedure council"
"lets go for it what's a few dollars to make this place more efficient"
What scares me is if we vote in a new council next year. And they do not agree with all the changes made do we then go through this costly exercise again?
Looks good on all those people that voted for "change"
You have no idea how much more "change" is coming your way.
Embrace it cherish it enjoy it.
Change is something the CNP has never embraced. WHy start now.
You never advance that way.
You get behind when you want everything to be the same as it was 50 years ago.
People quit your whining.
This place has made tremendous strides over the last eighteen months.
We have real professionals running the place now. We have not even come close to reaching the plateau yet.
Good governance is so critical if we want to turn this community around.
It will take our council the first three years to straighten out the essential documentation,and policies required to run an organization like this.
Then the next three years you will see the strategic plan being the catalyst that causes the transformation of this community into the utopia that it should and will be.
So a few dollars is spent on consultants people do not lose sight of the end game here.
This will all be a distant memory five years from now.
Kate
Not everything this council does will need to be changed. Someone will have to come in and restore a little balance between all this expert opinion and some common sense. Our small community can afford only so much of this expertse. The experts are right by not being transparent about the costs of their expertse. Us Crowsnest Pass rednecks may not appreciate all this value.
Kate, Sorry I disagree. You must understand politics.If your plan is longer than 3 years you must make sure you get reelected.I think we are looking at 7 new members on council next term.So unless they can greatly speed up their strategic plan and get something REAL accomplished they will be done.Even the task force recognized this and put very tight timelines on everything.To bad council chose to ignore those experts.
Does anybody really think anything will change here?
Some folks are so desperate for that almighty change.
Come the next election a new group of people will stand up and say we need change.
Sadly those same group of voters will vote for the change again.
Kate - you are very keen and perceptive! I appreciate your insight. Here is to Utopia.
$1200 a day works out to less than 25 cents per resident per day.
Big deal
A lesson in common sense to voters of CNP. If you elect a bureacrat for mayor, he'll do what he knows best, and in this case maybe the only thing he knows, he'll build up and increase the bureaucracy.
In the meantime in the real world, the community is slowly dying. Strangled to death by increasing taxes and regulations.
Ano. 11:42 – My six year old son can’t afford his .25 – what should I tell him? Add all these cents together and you will get the big deal.
I agree with Kate. Let's give this council a chance. I really think they're on the right track.
Kate you see a utopia here what makes you think that?
2:50 you feel they are on the right track same question as above.
If I was a municipal employee I would be asking for lots more money.
Then I would sit back and wait for management to say that they could not afford to pay.
This really can not be true. Can it?
Kate is very good at satire, some of the readers are obviously not.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have to pay Taxes here myself. I would say rack them up, increase utility costs, user fees and on and on.
Are you people sleeping do you net realize to have big government you have to have big money.
Reading in the Calgary Sun today how they keep justifying tax increases because of all the new growth in the city.
Their population is growing every year, business is moving there at least they have an excuse. We do not have that here folks.
Wake up look at all the "growth" we have enjoyed over the last couple of years. God help us when the coal market goes for a down turn. Which we all know it will sooner or later.
Since the mines closed here we have been and always will be a bedroom community for the Elk Valley with a little bit of tourism sprinkled in here and there.
Yes I get it our community is beautiful it is surrounded by mountains, trees and wildlife.
I just described every community between here and Vancouver.
This community needs to live within it's means.
I understand taxes will go up but it should never be more than the cost of living.
Half our population is seniors we can not afford to keep paying.
People wake up.
Nick
It looks like big government is here to stay.
Between the cost of new administrators and consultants.
How can this be sustainable?
Are we just going to pay more or are we going to sacrifice services?
I hope somebody has the answers.
Larry
Dean
Sounds to me like the sheep are being led to slaugther.
Do you really think anybody is going to stand up to these guys.
Exactly why I left the Pass
Terry
"25 cents a day per resident" That works out to around #100 per properety tax bill(year) . So when you see your next(increased) bill, at least you know where some of your the money went. To pay for some cockamamie idea, in my opinion.
Someone told me she saw a female photographer taking pictures of a home in Coleman not too long ago. The home is owned by seniors and has the usual assortment of bric-a-brac and some orderly parked equipment. Before last year, I would have said that it was probably some art photographer, now, other things come to mind. In a town of about six thousand residents someone is compiling a list of 280 homes? Say, at three per home, to discount families because most of these homes are occupied by one or two seniors, that is about 840 residents who reside in noncompliant homes. This number could get bigger if someone does not put some brakes on this list. Many of these non-compliant homes (not all) are rented out at very low rates to people who are on some level of support – and therefore need cheap rents. Let’s go after the landlords for peeling paint and see what will most likely happen to rents. Better yet, let’s give them tickets and raise their taxes and then see what happens to these cheap rents. This does not mean that we should not clean up, we should. But a list of 280 homes in a town of our size and economic means? Council, we need to see some common sense here, before you let this genie out of our municipal office.
I would gladly pay an extra $100 per year to support this council in their quest to keep moving us in the right direction
Anon-1:09 I am so glad that you are willing to pay the $100.00 dollars to support this council. Are you willing to pay mine too?
Dean, thanks for the Rocky View County info. Looking at their organizational chart, and our organizational plan, one can see where we are at least partially heading with our growing administration. But there is a huge problem with this direction. One just has to look at the current Rocky View budget document and it is pretty plain to see. Rocky View, with 4.5% annual growth, is the fastest growing rural municipality in Alberta. Rocky View assessment for 2012 is 13,976,365,215 (14 Billion) and the Municipality of the Crowsnest Pass assessment for 2012 is 973,193,370 (1 Billion) – one can see Rocky View felt comfortable hiring consultants for $1000 per day. One of the biggest malls in Canada, Cross Iron Mills is nicely taxed in Rocky View. Need one say more?
I don't know where Rocky View came from I thought the information came from Mountain View. But Dean is right can we afford consultants like this?
Well, Rockyview also gets their money from very high taxes. We used to live in Rockyview district and our taxes were double compared to her.
Mountain View assessment is only four time bigger than here. ???
When I read this I get a little worried because if a councilor does not know how much we are paying for consultants must mean council handed the keys to the vault to someone and said go and hire someone.Is it not councils job to know how much these type of expenses are??
Rockyview 2011 Residential Mill Rates
General 2.0095
Emergency Services 0.3509
Alberta School 2.4573
Senior Foundation 0.038
4.8557 X 500,000/1,000= Tax Bill $2,428
Crowsnest Pass 2011 Reisential Mill Rates
General 5.6271716
School 2.3840783
Senior Lodge 0.3056
TOTAL 8.3168499X 500,000/1,000=Tax Bill of $4,158
ANOM 5:40 can you explain how Rockyview taxes are double the Crowsnest taxes? I have calculated the taxes for both based on a 500,000 house and Crowsnest is twice as much as Rockyview.
Rockyview 2011 Residential Mill Rates
General 2.0095
Emergency
Services 0.3509
Alberta
School 2.4573
Senior
Foundation 0.038
4.8557 X 500,000/1,000 =
Rockyview Tax Bill of $2,428
Crowsnest Pass 2011 Reisential Mill Rates
General 5.6271716
School 2.3840783
Senior Lodge 0.3056
8.3168499 500,000/1,000=
Crowsnest Tax Bill of $4,158
We have a lot in Crowsnest and were plaing to retire there but have changed our mind because of the high taxes. All we see is a lot of tax increases coming. You have to do something down there to get your taxes down if you are going to attract retiries.
J&S Blackburn
In the Mountain View bylaw:
"-the funding be allocated from the Tax Rate Stabilization Reserve
-the total contract amount be to a maximum of $194,000
-the Agreement include amendments as provided by County Legal Counsel."
For comparison, here is the CNP way:
After 55 minutes IN CAMERA ending at 8:35pm
"Councillor L. Mitchell moved to direct Administration to enter into an agreement with Transitional Solutions Inc. to develop and implement a Municipal Peace Officer Program
...
Councillor A. Saje requested the following Friendly amendment and was accepted by Councillor L. Mitchell:
And that Administration write to the Municipality’s neighbouring communities asking if they are interested in partnering with the Municipality of Crowsnest Pass to engage Transitional Solutions Inc. to assist them in developing their own Community Peace Officer Programs as long as the Consultant deems it feasible.
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
Councillor L. Mitchell moved to adjourn the meeting at 8:52 pm."
No discussion of cost or which fund the money comes from.
OCTOBER 4, 2011 minutes
I would like to see that agreement - was it actually signed by
Kevin Robins Interim CAO CNP
and
Kevin Robins CEO Transitional Solutions
???
Do all the fancy calculations that you want to suit yourself. We had a 500,000 house in Rockyview. Taxes were 2800 per year. We bought a comparable house in the Crowsnest - at a much cheaper price - taxes 1450. YOU DO THE MATH.
Whoever started making the calculations between Rocky View and CNP, why. Two different jusisdictions. Just need to worry about our own area, right.
10:50, Are you saying that the same guy hired himself?
No discussion about money? Are you kidding me.
Now!!, we have a councilor asking how much these consultants are costing us!!
Anom 6:42 Sir/Madam
“Fancy calculations”???? Your comment of the taxes being half of Rockyview did not sound right so I researched it. If your Crowsnest Taxes are 1,400 then your house is assessed at 174,000. If you think comparing a 500,000 Rockyview home with a 174,000 Crowsnest home makes the taxes half, then I will not argue with you. Our research suggests it will cost just as much to build down there as it does near Calgary.
Anom 7:42 I am not trying to get off topic comparing your area with other areas for property taxes. It seems this discussion is about town spending and where the taxes are headed. Anyone who suggests Crowsnest property taxes have room to go up is misguided. You have a lot of older homes that do not pay much tax. The heavy tax load is on new properties. Make your arguments for higher taxes but we will not be contributing to the kitty (after we sell our lot).
Sorry to detract from the very interesting discussion on the councilor trying to find out how much is being paid to the consultant who hired himself.
J&S Blackburn
To J&S Blackburn:
Ha ha, you must be in politics. Fight to the bitter end to prove your wrong point, and twist everything in the process. Believe what you like, and move if you like. We are all free to live wherever we want to, that is the good thing.
Do you not realize the following:
.Bigger House
.Newer house
.lot size = more taxes. Everywhere not just in the pass. I am sure you should realize that when you build or whatever - like you said you have a lot only. Maybe a little uninformed.
Ano. 05:24 So why we are not getting a whole bunch of these new homes to increase our tax base?
Is J&S Blackburn right or wrong when he says the taxes on a 500,000 house in rockyview are 2,400 vs CNP is 4,100?
He is totally wrong. And if you look around there are quite a few newer houses and I am sure they are paying their taxes. As are all the new big acreages that are going up.Sky is not falling.
Municipal property taxes are calculated based on the application of the formula outlined below. For the 2011 taxation year, Rocky View’s tax or “mill” rate for Residential properties has been set at 2.0095 mills; for Farmland properties at 4.5214 mills and for Non-Residential properties at 6.0285 mills.
School property taxes are calculated based on the application of the formula outlined below. For the 2011 taxation year, the School tax or “mill” rate for Residential properties has been set at 2.4573 mills; for Farmland properties at 2.4573 mills and for Non-Residential properties at 3.0890 mills.
Residential mill rate including School levy 2.0095 + 2.4573 = 6.48
Rocky View $500,000 X 6.48 /1000 = $3,240.00
CNP 2011 municipal tax 5.6271716 + School levy 2.3840783 + Seniors Levy 0.3056 = 8.32
CNP $500,000 X 8.32/ 1000 = $4,160.00
This is the comparison between Rocky View and CNP and it is neither here nor there – it only shows that our taxes are very expensive with very little room to move up. The real point is that in order to pay for the new administrative positions created by this council, and the monies spent on consultants, we would need 100 of these new $500,000 homes built this year, if we do not raise taxes and cut services. Drive around and count all the new homes in town and on the acreages.
Another victim of foolish fiscal planning the Crowsnest Pass swimming pool.
Usually opens the first Monday after Victoria Day weekend will open this year June 4.
One weeks savings at the pool would probably pay for a consultant to hang around for another three days.
It just gets better and better.
Sarah
Opening the pool the first Monday after Victoria day seems really really early to me. No big deal.
Sorry Anonymous Sun Mar 18, 05:14:00 PM 2012, J&S Blackburn, you are absolutely right in your calculations, my fat finger touched adjacent button on my small calculator, a $500,000.00 dollar home in Rocky View is taxed, inducing all the levies, 4.8557 X 500,000/1,000 = Tax Bill of $2,428 and not my fat finger $3,240.00, a home in CNP that is worth $500,000 is taxed, with all levies, at 8.3168499 X 500,000/1,000= Crowsnest Tax Bill of $4,158 This is close to DOUBLE the rate. The fellow who said that you are absolutely wrong must be one of these people who is helping the council with its math, seems for them, 1 + 1 = 20, no finger slip this time. These numbers may seem not important to some people, but these are the numbers that decide whether someone like J&S Blackburn decide to come, invest, and build a home here. The SKY is not falling, but unless this council wakes up to the economic reality that surrounds them, it may start falling yet. And yes, we need new taxpayers; policies that drive them out will not be good for anyone. How could we have been so wrong?
Forget that last post. We found some very interesting information on this Donna Tona.
How could we have been so wrong?
The voters let the media dictate who was going to be on council instead of people taking the time to think things through.One of the papers screamed it was time for change and change you got.I was fairly happy with the previous council and voted for them.They were commen sense and heading in the right direction imo.You must always be careful when deciding between what you have and what you are going to get.I liked what we had and I was not ready to take a chance on the unknown. So now I am assuming that if we had an election today that this council would be out. The question then becomes to vote for some of the past councilors who you may not have loved but at least you did not hate or do you vote for more of the unknown, buying into promises and lies and all the BS.
To ANON 8:39 my sentiments exactly the only difference is that i knew this when they were having the countdown to get rid of the previous council. When they voted in this mayor blindly by such a large majority they gave him absolute power he has know whipped this council into nothing more than lap dog. The previous mayor always had a few of those councillers where he pulled their strings looks like mayor Decoux has surpassed him in that area already.
I live in Edmonton and want move to the Crowsnest and started looking at different options and found things that didn't seem right.
Your council doesn't seem to care. They hire consultants because they don't know what to do and stick you with the bill and pat themselves on the back for what a wonderful job they did. The first meeting they read the reports the consultants composed and sell it to the people as if it was their idea.
The coal is coming back, on and on they say so they can justify keep your houses at higher assessments value so higher taxes can be collected. There must be intelligent people that would give up time for free that know just as much as these consultants right in the Crowsnest. I wanted to build a new house and found out there are very few permits required and no one cares. A company from Lethbridge does the inspections on new homes, and I was told no one will take responsibility if something goes wrong. He told me he looks for tar on the basement and a smoke detector and he is gone.
There is no protection for people building new homes. Buyer beware.
I was told you have an Electrical inspector and everything else was subbed out to an independent company. Something wrong when they tell you to to phone another city to get information about building permits.
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