Sunday, July 22, 2012

What was your impression of Rum Runner Days

Looking for feedback, enjoy it? hate it? let me know, was it worth the money spent? what were the best events?

57 comments:

Anonymous said...

I really enjoyed the show and shine. A lot of good cars and trucks to look at.

Anonymous said...

So sad. This counsel must be very pleased with themselves. Business lost tens of thousands of dollars and will be laying off staff and or shutting down.

Thunder in the Valley is Dead
-Mission accomplished!

Business are upset that the Chamber did not stand up for them and will not be renewing their memberships.- Mission accomplished!

Positive Spin- Tin Roof, will not have to worry about hiding their cash and liquor anymore.

Anonymous said...

Businesses lost tens of thousands of dollars. Total hearsay. I don't believe that as there has never been any documents supporting it. Easy to say without proof.

Anonymous said...

Anon. 3:18 -
Are you for real. You people with your own agendas can sure spin a tale. Anyone goes out of business it is probably because people are sick of going to their stores because of very crabby people. I myself prefer Pincher Creek where clerks are friendly and not IGNORANT. It is really something to behold.

Anonymous said...

Dean how long do you think it will take Emile and the municipality to put together the numbers on this weekend.
I can not wait there will be no confusion this year. To what was spent on TITV versus Rum Runner Days.

Anonymous said...

There are no winners in this whole sad affair. Some people will be happy - most will be not - many will not care. If someone is naive enough to think that a silent majority is supporting this council - the attendance numbers and the volunteer participation should cure them of this notion.

Anonymous said...

I open the clown is running for council next election.
We need some common sense on the board.

Mike Gerrie said...

I created a Blog to highlight my disappointment with our town council here in the Crowsnest Pass. Click on the link for more pics of this uneventful day. The Fire Department has run the fire works here in the valley for 18 years. Turning it into a internationally recognized event. You can not buy that kind of publicity. Well with the brow beating of a couple high ranking individuals in the RCMP and a totally inept council this event was cancelled....or should I say the fireworks portion was cancelled. This is what we got this year.
http://nothunder.blogspot.ca/

Anonymous said...

Anon Jul 22, 07:32 asked:

"Dean how long do you think it will take Emile and the municipality to put together the numbers on this weekend.
I can not wait there will be no confusion this year. To what was spent on TITV versus Rum Runner Days."


All we have from 2011 is Emile's "back of the envelope" guesstimate.

Somebody has spent a lot of money on rock bands, portapotties, shuttle busses, advertising and "merchandise" (T-shirts?), without any formal authorization so far AFAIK. Will Council pass a motion retroactively legalizing these expenditures? Who is keeping track of employee hours, vehicles and equipment, office services and use of meeting rooms and municipal land? Emile?

Were the Quadders and Jesus folks charged for use of Muni land, and if not, who made that decision? Were the artsies, tree-huggers and heritage folks offered the same deal?

Crowsnest Pass Home said...

To the person that thinks the businesses did not suffer. Pick a day and I and yourself will start at one of Blairmore and go to the other and question every business owner. Pick your day pal make it two if necessary.

I will live by the results we find will you.

Crowsnest Pass Home said...

No to my next post I have included the CAO email address we need to have 100's of people asking kim for the numbers.

If enough people speak up it will come out,

Anonymous said...

Crowsnest Pass Home said...
"... start at one of Blairmore and go to the other and question every business owner."
Denturist, flower shops, registry, insurance, health foods, banks, dentists, doctors, optometrists, appliance store, hairdressers, barbers, cinema, office supplies, car wash, auto repair, video rental, electronics, rental shop, chiropractor, lawyers, physiotherapists, plumbers, electricians, roofers, ... .

Jim said...

Dean, time for the Chamber of Commerce to step up and do a survey with the businesses and see how much was really lost. Not only the ones in Blairmore but all of the Crowsnest Pass.

Anonymous said...

One thing I really cannot understand is why every business put up "No Public Washrooms". This is worse this weekend, but it is usual all year round. I do not get it. What is the big deal with someone using the washroom? What do they expect people to do????

Anonymous said...

BCMI was full all weekend. RCMP Sherriffs and Peace officer vechiles there all the time. I wonder who was paying for that?

Anonymous said...

If I was a Chamber member I'd cancel my membership. Where was the advocacy for members?

Anonymous said...

The weekend was a total bust. The municapality spent a pile of money for no reason. It was a nice local event.All of this proves that thunder was the draw.When the fireman did not show up at the parade it further proves that Thunder was cancelled not for the reasons given by council.
As for those who do not think this was a huge business weekend. You are right when you say it can not be documented. However my family spent about 50$ in a couple of hours after the parade and then went home. Just imagine if you will that 25000 people came into town and many were spending a night or two either at a hotel or camping.They are going to be spending money on food, liqour, fuel, accomadations, souvioners etc. So when I see tens of thousands of dollars in revenue lost I think that is funny.We are talking about Millions lost.25,000 people times 50$ equals well over a million.
And the new line by council when you complain is "why didnt you get out there and help instead of complaining" is pure BS. They are trying to pass the buck to the citizen instead of owning up to the huge mistake they made. Will we see an about face by council on this issue now. I doubt this arrogant group would ever be man enough to admit there mistake.

Anonymous said...

If this weekend cost us $10-20,000 I'm ok with that. I'm sure every town spends that kind of money on a parade etc.
But it better not be any more than that.
Was it just me I didn't notice any fire trucks in the parade?

Peter

Anonymous said...

I came to the Crowsnest Pass expecting Thunder in the Valley. No where did I see advertising stating that Thunder was cancelled. All I seen was advertising for all these Rum Runner events. Well let me tell you this will be the last time this cowboy from Cranbrook comes over for this weekend.
We can see many parades a lot closer to home.
I sure hope the business community in the Crowsnest Pass is doing well. They have lost my tourist dollars and a few more folks from this neck of the woods.

Pissed Off in Cranbrook

Anonymous said...

Peter they spent more than that on cops.I am thinking you better put a zero behind your numbers and then you will be in the ballpark.

Anonymous said...

On May 31st, Deans blog Expected revenue and expenses.
Where does the revenue come from?
$16,000 cash on hand
$25,000 municipal soft costs
$50,000 Municipal contribution
$2,500 Carnival rides
$3,000 Business Licenses
$6,000 Vendor permits
$10,000 Camping
$1,500 Friday Night wine and arts
$2,000 Lions Club
$15,000 Saturday night concert
$2,500 Saturday night food and beverage
$15,000 Merchandise Sales
$2,500 Show and Shine revenue
$9,500 Parking and Shuttle Revenue


Total revenue $160,500


Where is the money spent?


$19,200 Municipal Staff costs
$6,600 Municipal Office
$3,000 Advertising
$3,500 Website design/modifications
$2,000 Promotion
$1,500 Wine and art night
$8,500 Saturday night concert
$3,000 Gazebo Park Entertainment
$3,500 Kids Show
$13,500 Stage Rental
$4,000 Show and Shine merchandise
$20,000 Merchandise Purchase Costs
$12,500 Washroom rentals
$4,000 Waste pickup and disposal
$1,500 Security Fencing
$2,500 Tent and Accessories
$20,000 Rcmp Policing
$15,000 Regional Peace Officers/Sheriff
$1,920 Bus Rentals
$1,500 Donation to Boys and Girls club
$1,500 Donation to Coleman Society
$1,500 Donation to Kanaskis Rodeo Assoc
$1,500 Donation to Quad Squad


Total Expenses $151,720

Anonymous said...

First of all I would like to say that I was born and raised here, left twice and came back both times. This is my home. The Crowsnest Pass has had so many hardships since the closing of Coleman Colleries. Its been a hard go the community for too many years. I have unconditional respect for the Fire Department and what they have done for our community in the last 18 years. You saved us! You saved our community! Today, I feel lost, disappointed, angry, hopeless, saddened, and helpless. I feel like now we are reliving the past. Seems this new Dictatorship council has run us back into the ground. Will you admit you made a huge mistake? ? Will you admit you opened up a can of worms? Will you admit you never thought it through? I doubt it.

For Anon 3:18
I have one thing to say for all those who think this is nothing but a money grab for the Businessess. First of all, I can pretty much guarantee that you folks are consumers only. Thunder in the Valley & Christmas is the only time of the year for the Businesses to catch up financially, to restock the shelves so they can continue provide goods for the good people of the Crowsnest Pass and surrounding areas. The future exsistance of both new and exsisting businesses here in the Crowsnest Pass is dismal. They have family to feed to.

For all those people that came to this event anyway, it was an embarrassment to lose your support, and an embarrassment to have RCMP ticketing people for silly things when they were actually brought in for "crowd control", "safety" etc.

Bridges burned will affect us for a very long time.

Anonymous said...

On May 31st, Deans blog Expected revenue and expenses.

Where does the revenue come from?

$16,000 cash on hand
Where did this come from?
$25,000 municipal soft costs
Why wouldn't this be included with the $50,000 below one and the same?
$50,000 Municipal contribution
We put in this much cash for what?
$2,500 Carnival rides
Sure didn't look very busy think they will be back next year?
$3,000 Business Licenses
Where? Who?
$6,000 Vendor permits
From the six vendors we had? they lost their shirts?
$10,000 Camping
Did not see one camper all weekend what a pipe dream?
$1,500 Friday Night wine and arts
This looks like it could have been real?
$2,000 Lions Club
This one is money in the bank
$15,000 Saturday night concert
40 people x $15 does not come to $15,000?
$2,500 Saturday night food and beverage
Boy those 40 folks ate a lot?
$15,000 Merchandise Sales
What were you selling t-shirts for $200 a pop?
$2,500 Show and Shine revenue
This could be real it looked like it went very well. For me the highlight of the weekend!
$9,500 Parking and Shuttle Revenue
What were they charging $500 a car?

Just because you say something a hundred times does not make it true.

Jack

Anonymous said...

Council (and you know which ones you are, and so do we) you need to show respect for our VOLUNTEER Fire Department. What would you do with out them. Remember..they ARE volunteer.

Anonymous said...

You didn't know what you had until it was gone.
I would sure like to hear how much we paid for this weekend.
Just found out where my 4% tax increase went.

Anonymous said...

I sure hope thats its an outside auditor or someone other than the MCNP or council doing the total cost of past and present expenses. Lack of trust now.

Anonymous said...

It's too bad the weekend was such a bust. It started out really good, I totally enjoyed the wine and cheese at the Elks hall. But after that the whole weekend just stunk.
The parking permit thing really got everybody's back up especially when there was so much parking available in Blairmore.
If the community wants their tax dollars spent on this weekend then you need to have a real attraction to bring people in.
Every community does a parade that will not be a draw.

Anonymous said...

Sasha JB states on Facebook that somebody was exaggrating when they said only three people were at the Friday concert.
She goes on to talk about her family of eight that was there, another family of seven, plus at least 11 more people. So we are going to scrabble so hard to find the good in this weekend that we are going to argue between wheather there was three people there or 26.

Wow are we ever in trouble.

Sasha JaegerBaird said...

To anon at Mon Jul 23, 10:52:00 PM 2012

Yes, I did say that. But let's get the whole comment shall we? You forgot to mention that I also said how disappointed I was with the turnout whatever the numbers were. In fact my quote was:

"I just wanted to correct one error made in one of the earlier posts. There were not just three people at the Friday night concert before it got rained out. I was there (when the rain started and ended), with most of my family. There are 8 of us. There was also another family there with 7 family members. That makes the count 15 and there were a few other people there too. I counted about 11, unless I missed a few I did not see. That is 26 people not including the volunteers that were there. Yes, the concert was a disappointment. And 26 people is not a lot of people to turn out for a concert!! I, for one, was not happy with the turn out, but please get your facts straight. Nothing irks me more that people who can not get the facts straight or grossly exaggerate the truth. I understand what you are saying. It was a big disappointment, all round."

Anonymous said...

A bit of iShopping suggests that RRD2012 T-shirts in quantity would cost about $7 each, so there must be 2 or 3 thousand.

They could send one with each utility bill (or save it till the 2013 tax bill, just to "sweeten the pill").

Anonymous said...

Whole bunch of garbage where the carni people were parked. I hope it is picked up today - looks terrible. Whole bunch of rotten food just laying there. Disgusting.

Anonymous said...

Whoa Sasha, please calm down.

Anonymous said...

Sasha, We all appreciate your efforts and the rest of the volunteers in trying to do the impossible. I think this was a clear message to council that the people are not pleased.Tourists and locals stayed away to prove the point.Some of your ideas were great had they been combined with Thunder.I read some comments by Gallant and he seems pleased with the weekend results.It takes a big man to be able to admit when he is wrong.My guess is the 7 on council are not willing to admit their error.I would suggest for next year, assuming there is no Thunder that council give no more money to this event then they do the ones in Coleman and Bellcrest.

Anonymous said...

Sasha
Nothing personnel, weather it was 3, 26, or 46 does it really matter it was a flop. What do you think the turnout was for TR3. When I drove by I would have said maybe 60-70 people tops. Can you give us a more formal number so we are not working with rumours or wild assumptions.
By the way Sasha I heard your comments at the rate payers meeting and I am glad you were the voice of reason on the Rum Runners committee and good luck in your new position on the rate payers executive.

Anonymous said...

Actually I agree with Councillor Gallant I think it was a very nice family orientated weekend.
With only one condition that would be how much did the municipality spend.
I see the Bellcrest and Coleman weekends has very family orientated events so the dollars need to be equivalent. Now they are all very similar weekends So I voted on your poll that the weekend was improved for my family. Subject to the municipality not having spent more than $10-20,000.

Kim

Anonymous said...

I don't believe each little town needs to have separate "days" It could be combined into one and save a ton of money.
I do think council is on the right track. At least it was not a "free for all" weekend.

Anonymous said...

Wine and Cheese awesome.
Show and Shine awesome.
Charlie the Clown awesome.

Rest of the weekend a joke, do the three things above with a parade. $5,000 tops nobody from out of town will come but who cares.

Mike

Anonymous said...

I agree with all of the above. If you are not trying to draw the tourist then this is the perfect event. As for how much money they spent it will be well over 100,000.
There in lies the problem, they did try and even expected this to be a big tourist attraction.Now the question council must ask themselves,Big tourist draw and all of the benefits that comes with it or a nice local event.If they listened to the very strong majority the people would say bring back Thunder. Are they listening?

Anonymous said...

I agree with Mike.

Sasha JaegerBaird said...

I agree wholeheartedly with anon - Tue Jul 24, 10:18:00 AM 2012.

(Side note: It was Rainbow the Clown and Charli the Facepainter lol )

The Show and Shine was the biggest ever! the Wine and food Festival was hugely successful!! Rainbow was a hit!!

Charli the Facepainter was very busy and doing her usual extraordinary works of art!!

Rolande the card reader was brilliant!! Her talents are amazing!! However, she was not placed in the best spot in order to highlight her talents. However, she had a great time and wants to return next year.

The youth talent show was awesome!! We have a lot of amazing young talent!! They deserve much credit. I was proud of them!!

The parade over all, was a disappointment, no bands (music). The firemen were very conspicuously absent (sad). However, the Rate-payers float was awesome!! The Recreation float was great!! Morency's new float was wonderful! The "bear" was very realistic, frightening and fun!! Too bad the parade was so short and lacked the basic components of past parades.

I really do not know what we expected for crowds, but they were not there as in past, obviously. I saw a lot more locals, however many locals did boycott, as expected.

The midway was a disappointment. We received half the rides. No line-ups but the carneys would say the rides were broke in order to not run for just two or three people. What a laugh!!

A lot less vendors. Could be the price change and losing Thunder. I for one, usually set up a vendor stand and did not this year only because there was no Thunder.

T-shirts sales were brisk, both for the RRD T-shirts and the TITV T-shirts.

Duck Race was a success!! Always fun!!

Wrestling was very quiet. Not many people. Not surprising!!

Too many police. Good if we had the crowds, but overall unneeded.

Parking passes totally unnecessary. No one even checked me or anyone else I know. However, if we had had Thunder, they would have been a good idea. As would have the designated parking areas.

No one camping, not surprising.

Quiet, good family fun. Needed more stuff for families/kids though.

Overall, it turned out exactly as I expected that it would, without Thunder in the Valley. Many disappointed people. Some came still expecting Thunder and went home upset. The families who were there had good to say about the family events.

It was Rum Runner Days. It was the same as any other local celebration in any other town. It was not Thunder in the Valley good.

Many new things this year that will definitely compliment the next time we do have Thunder in the Valley!!

I, for one, am looking toward the future and hoping that we can bring TITV back with all the new positive changes and make it the best celebration ever!!

BTW. I am happy to sit down and talk with anyone about this years events, changes and issues. Email me, write on my blog, phone me. I am available to talk.

Anonymous said...

I heard on the news at lunch that the police were VERY busy. Also the sheriffs and bylaw people. So I think they must have been needed. A lot of arrests even with TITV. People just make too much fuss over something that in the whole scheme is not that horrible. The sun still came up the next day. And there are a lot of people that are glad it did not take place. I think they are just not as vocal that's all.

Anonymous said...

So Sasha do you think the taxpayers got value for the money spent.
When you consider that Bellcrest and Coleman only get $10,000.

Larry

Anonymous said...

1:43 Is that true Bellcrest and Coleman only get $10,000 for their weekends.
If that is the case then lets make it simple. Give each group the same $10,000 (Coleman, Blairmore, Bellcrest) they can hold a parade, talent contests, carnivals what ever they want. But to do anything above that they must fund raise.
I could live with that. No more of the municipality putting up the money then the groups paying it back from Shuttle bus, concert or camping revenues.
For those that propose holding one set of days for the whole Crowsnest Pass, I will be very keen to see which politician votes for that.

Jerry

Anonymous said...

Well ... It's obviously not RR days that brings in the people so why won't Thunder Committee assist with the other costs of running their event. Why won't they sit at the table with the RR committee and work that out. Those 50/ 50 were getting up there... Does the money go back into the purchase of the fireworks? Is thunder a corporation or a society/ charity. Can they apply for funding to help cover some of the other costs? Is the RR committee a society? Can they help with funding? Come to the table Thunder ... Work it out!

Sasha JaegerBaird said...

In response to Larry's question.

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

Anonymous said...

Well - the council has accomplished it's goal of making the Rum Runner Weekend a safe family
event. With this being their goal, they should have asked the Town of Fort McLeod how much they spend on their Santa Claus parade.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:03 asked:

"Is the RR committee a society?"

It is not an Alberta registered society.
It is not a "Council Committee" established by resolution of Council.
It is not part of CNP administration.
It is totally informal with no legal or official status (so not subject to FOIP or legal accountability).
AFAIK, all the spending on RR is unauthorised, which would be a big scandal in most governments or private companies (Think of Peter MacKay's $32000 helicopter ride or Conrad Black's wife's $62000 birthday party expensed to the company.)

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:05 said:

"... they should have asked the Town of Fort McLeod how much they spend on their Santa Claus parade."

Fort McLeod held their South Country Fair on the same weekend.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 5:03 The fireman wrote a letter to council inviting them to come to a meeting and discuss Thunder.The Mayor read about 1 third of the letter and stated something along the line that if the fireman want to meet with us they can come to us a delagation in front of council.
The fireman are not at fault.They worked countless hours to put on the show that did so much for this community.They ask for a meeting and get snubbed by the Mayor and 6 lemmings.So now what is going to happen? Do you really think the fireman are going to plead with council to put the show back on?
I think the only way the show goes again is if council comes to the fireman and asks them nicely ( and maybe not even then). Do I think this will happen, Not a chance.

Anonymous said...

My goodness, place nice children. Holy moly. I am sad that everything is between men.

Crowsnest Pass Home said...

Reading the comments on my blog and from what I have heard around town this community must decide what it wants.
If it's the family orientated, quite, laid back weekend then has a lot of the people have said give each community $5-10,000. (When I was on Council Bellcrest and Coleman received $5,000 from the municipality.) Let each committee put on the weekend events that they see fit and make it has family orientated as they want.
Just realize that we don't have to bring in every available enforcement officer in Southern Alberta, run shuttle buses, have hundreds of camping spots available and bring in bands that nobody as ever heard of.

If the people here want to "brand" and market this community as Councilor Mitchell spoke about in this week's paper. Then what are we going to brand it as? Will we spend big dollars on consultants to determine that for us?

The Mayor gave a speech about a convention he went to early last year. Where he stated that when people spoke to him about the Crowsnest Pass, it was not about the mountains, the historical heritage. The one thing that came up again and again was "Thunder in the Valley" we have a brand already.

Could Thunder in the Valley have been done better? of course everything can be done better. It was getting better, biggest complaints I heard over the years was moving the traffic after the event and controlling the drunken idiots. Well for those that don't know those things were happening.
The time to get out of Blairmore had dropped by a significant amount over the last three years. Also the number of arrests dropped by a considerable amount in that same time frame. The RCMP were doing a better and better job of being visible and keeping the crowds under control.
I do not doubt for a second that some of the crap that people have talked about down around the field as happened, but how much of it as been exaggeration? I hear every year from people about the folks that had people having sex on their front yard, nobody can ever seem to name the place where it happened but everybody as heard about it.

We all know people that live by the field, one lady I know who's house is one block from the field hates the event. Another couple I know their yard backs right on to the field have never had a problem. Even the lady that hates the event says as long as the police have been visible around her area she as not really had any problems she just does not like it.

Do we want to market this community do we want to bring a lot of people here? Some people say to me we need more events like Sinister 7, I agree but how many of those are you going to do in a year?

I heard yesterday I wish we could have Thunder in the Valley, but not attracting the type of crowd it does. Well what type of crowd is that? 99% of the people that came to Thunder in the Valley never caused a problem they were good people just looking to have a bit of fun. The 1% that's why we had the RCMP, arrest them charge them with every thing you can and make them not want to come back to the Pass.

This community needs help, it needs to attract people here. Is our business sector thriving? what is our price of real estate doing? God help us if the coal market ever goes in to the toilet.

Over the years I had my issues with Thunder in the Valley and some of the problems that it brought with it. But all problems have solutions What I never questioned was the facts that Thunder put this community on the map, that it brought a lot of people here to see our community, some of them even purchased homes here. And yes it brought a lot of money in to this community. Do I think every business in this town is going to open its books to the public to prove that? No. Go talk to the business owners.

Should we do Thunder in the Valley? I believe so, find ways to do it better, safer, maximize revenues to off set costs. I don't think we are going to attract people here for a parade and a few family orientated events every community has one of them.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the statement:
The Mayor gave a speech about a convention he went to early last year. Where he stated that when people spoke to him about the Crowsnest Pass, it was not about the mountains, the historical heritage. The one thing that came up again and again was "Thunder in the Valley" we have a brand already."
Therein lies the problem. We should be branded as mountains, fishing, skiing. That people knew more about TITV is not good. The aforementioned appeals to everyone. whereas TITV does not. We can definitely rebrand but at no cost hopefully.

Anonymous said...

10:48

"We should be branded as mountains, fishing, skiing"

You are right we have all of these things but so do how many more towns between here and Vancouver.

Once people are here they appreciate what we have, you need something unique to get them here.

What we had this last weekend was not unique.

Bill

Anonymous said...

I agree with anonymous 5:03. The Mayor did not make an honest attempt to work WITH the firemen. How would he like to be treated that way after 18 years of hard work. He has been here for what, one-maybe two years. The firemen deserve an apology. The question is will the mayor step up to the plate and FIX it? My guess would be NO. Remember, its always harder to see and admit to our own mistakes, but its necessary.

Anonymous said...

Sounds to me that all they need to do is leave their "Hats" and "Egos" at the door and have a proper meeting to figure things out. If they can't do that then I guess neither party is sincerely interested in hosting a great community event. I agree with 5:03 also.

Kevin said...

To the person who said its hearsay that businesses have lost thousands of dollars.... See if you can perform this simple math. When people come to town they buy pop, snacks, gas, keepsakes eat in our restaurants etc.. lets assume each person spends $20 ( rather modest amount) and 25,000 people come to town. then multiply $20 when only 1,000 people come to town. Get yourself a calculator and see the proof yourself. This is not rocket science, just simple economics.

Anonymous said...

I love the pass. I live in medicine hat, and I come every year for Thunder. I even came this year, as I'm a quadder, and already myself and the wife and our friends had the time booked off. This is my 8th year, and I can certainly tell you, there was nobody there. We went into town for the show and shine, which was great. But the rest of the time, the carnies were sleeping in the shade, or eating. We were the ONLY people at the carnival, save for 4 teenagers. We drove by the field for the evening show, and saw maybe 20 people in front of the stage. Decided to keep driving. Driving by the school where the parking and shuttle busses were, and saw one vehicle on several occasions. It was sad. I'm sorry your council did this to you. My friends and I still spent our money there though. Sobeys, Home Hardware, Top Gun, The Rum Runner. We will come back, but only because its the closest riding trails to medicine hat. I find it insulting that your council has marked us as unwelcome. If I knew it would have helped, I would have volunteered, donated, helped somehow. Oh well. Hopefully it doesn't hurt everyone there too much. And hopefully you will get Thunder and the people back. It won't be easy